[Text on screen: ANZ logo, Māori Millionaire Presents How We Money]
Voiceover by Te Kahukura: Welcome to How We Money. Brought to you by Māori Millionaire and ANZ. A six-part series designed to help you make better money moves and achieve your financial goals. Each month will drop a simple, practical episode to help you build confidence with your cash. Māori Millionaire and ANZ care deeply about financial wellbeing in our communities, which is why we want you to not just listen but to take action. If you do one positive thing after every episode, that's six powerful steps forward. Let's get into it.
Te Kahukura: Nau mai hoki mai e te whānau. Welcome to our final episode of How We Money. Today we are here with Miria Flavell, tena koe e hoa, nau mai haere mai. I'm very excited for today's podcast episode. I just wanted to thank you for your time today. Do you want to just start off by introducing yourself to our audience? For anyone who doesn't already know who you are, which I feel like a lot of people will. And if they haven't heard of you, they've definitely heard of HINE.
Miria: Aw tena koe, Kia ora e te whānau, ko Miria Flavell toku ingoa, he uri ahau no Ngati Rangiwewehi me Taranaki. But was born in Taranaki and raised in Rotorua. So that's home for me Rotorua.
Te Kahukura: You know, we were having a paku wānanga a bit before. And one of the things that came through for me was about, I guess loving the journey of like, well, not necessarily loving but learning from mistakes – hapa and the things that didn't go to plan. I thought that was really cool because I think a lot of people look up to you. A lot of people will see everything that you've been able to achieve, but I think sometimes people don't see the struggles behind the scenes that happen when you're actually building something massive, you know, building something that impacts so many lives. Do you want to just share a little bit about, I guess, that perspective of looking at the mistakes or hapa as like opportunities.
Miria: Well, I suppose that most look at entrepreneurs right, or business owners and think, oh, they're rich. Yeah, you know, they've got it all. But it's actually not the case for most, especially here in Aotearoa. I'm not saying that, you know, we're not, business owners aren’t doing well, but I think you have to go through a lot of different lessons and mistakes to actually get to that point in the first place. And I feel that where I can share the most value, I suppose, is to talk about my failures, is to talk about my mistakes or what I've been through. Because even when I started my business, I didn't have anyone I could talk to about this sort of stuff. We're talking off-air about how you know in high school, you learn about maths, but it's never about personal finances. It's never about business finances. So, everything that I've had to learn has all been through experiences over the last eight years of business. But it was actually before that too, because my story begins when I became a mum. So, when I became a māmā, I was working in the film and television industry and the hours were crazy hours. Starting at, you know, especially when we were on set, it was starting at, I don't know, 7.00am in the morning and then finishing at 11.00pm at night and being a first time mum, I absolutely hated it because I felt like I was missing out on so much to do with my baby. And I knew that, I didn't want that life. I wanted to be present and I wanted to be at home. And so, the first thing I thought about was, what can I do for myself? Or how can I work for myself? This is me not knowing anything about finances. But I had one skill which was to do makeup artistry. Back then, I had to learn how to do makeup and so, I created my own business at home, doing makeup services and didn't know anything about tax. Honestly, I knew nothing. Money was coming in and I was like, cool, I can support my whānau. And so that's kind of like, that was the starting point for me with business. And then obviously when HINE collection started for me, everything changed so much. Because there was a different it was very different from going from services to product, um, services. You know, you didn't have many things to pay for like I do now. I didn't have staff, I didn't have a lease. So, it was a whole new experience doing HINE collection. But like I said, all the lessons and mistakes I've learnt have definitely shaped me into the businesswoman that I am today and probably the wāhine that I am today. But I'll tell you what, there have been massive struggles along the way.
Te Kahukura: So, I would yeah, love to like, hear a little bit more about, I guess, the challenges that you've navigated in business and how they've shaped you into who you are today.
Miria: Well, it's taken me eight years. Let's just start there because it has taken a long time to kind of figure everything out. And I'm still figuring everything out, but I'll never forget when I first started in business. So, the first year of HINE collection, it was slow. Like many businesses, it took a while to really build it. And I remember the second year of business, I thought, okay, I better get an accountant because I don't know what I was doing. I better get an accountant. And the business started growing in the second year. And I remember then I got this bill and it was $95,000 for a tax bill. And I, honestly was like, what is this? I had no idea. And I remember getting really angry at the accountants because I was like, why would you not, like, teach me about this? Why would you not tell me? But it wasn't until, you know, when I reflect, I especially now like the businesswoman that I've become, I suppose I look back and, you know, it wasn't their responsibility sort of. It sort of was, but, you know, I should have, you know, taken it upon myself to really understand and learn. And I think, like over the last eight years, I've always given people that advice around anything that you feel that you can't do in your business or it's something that you can't do well or don't understand well, hire someone else to do it. But after eight years of business, and with the way that I suppose the economy is changing and all of that, and there's a lot of businesses that are struggling and closing down at the moment. I think like one of my biggest advice that I can give to someone now is learn every single area of your business, especially the finances, before it gets too late, before you get in trouble. And I think that, you know, like with business, it's always like this. It's a roller coaster of highs and lows and highs and lows. But it's preparing you for whatever comes, whether it is a high you're prepared for, if it's a low, you're prepared for it. And I think, over the eight years, I probably didn't take it so seriously. You know, finances and then it gets to a point where we could be struggling. And I don't know what's happening with our books, what's happening with the numbers, you know, like what's happening with our sales. Because I never asked those questions before I just left it to the experts. But that's one of my biggest, like, the biggest advice I can give to someone in business is learn right up front finances and everything that you need to know. You need to know what's going out, what's coming in. And it's just preparing yourself for every single scenario or situation that could happen, because it's really sad to see so many businesses closing at the moment. And I’m definitely making sure that we're not going to, you know, ever be one of those businesses. So, it's just about just being clued up or learning, for yourself, your situation, financial situation.
Te Kahukura: I wanted to touch on, like, Matariki when this episode comes out. For me, I’m always like, a big goal setter. And I love Matariki to, like, pause, reflect and think about, te tau kei te heke mai. And what are some of the things that maybe shouldn't come with me. Some of the habits, some of the, whether it's pūtea, whatever it is. Are you like a big goal setter when it comes to, like, maybe not Matariki or any time. Like, what's your kind of process when it comes to goals?
Miria: As a wahine, I thrive off having a plan or of having a goal. It keeps me very motivated. It keeps me driven. It keeps me passionate. And so, if I don't have goals for my business, I feel like I'd be a little bit lost if I'm being honest. And so I'm very big on goal setting. I'm very big on no goal is too big. I kind of set very, very high expectations for myself and in business and if I don't achieve it, Sweet. Kei te pai, you’ve still got another year. You know, like, every year it's just about having that goal. If you don't achieve it, why didn't I achieve it? What can I do better this time? So that's kind of how my mindset is, if there is anything personal, it's more so around, like my hauora, or around the kids. Yeah, being more present as a mum and just those, it's like my personal goals are very small compared to, like, what my business goals are. But like I said, I think, anything that I do in business, I think would benefit me and my whanau no matter what. So, yeah.
Te Kahukura: It always has like this flow on effect. They like, say for example, if you're able to make more pūtea in business, then that could help you to do the things that you want to in your personal life to like for your tamariki. Is there like a process you use when you set these like ambitious goals. You know that. Shoot for that. What is it? Shoot for the stars in a few. What is it? Shoot for the moon and if you miss your land somewhere across the stars…or whatever the saying is, is there like a process that you use to set goals?
Miria: I suppose one thing that I have had to learn is taking the in terms of like steps it's around. And this is something I never did before is setting, like, realistic like, whether it's six weeks goal or like three month goals, whether it's six month goals, whether it's 12 month goals. I've never had that before. And that's something that I've started to. Well, we've started to implement in that business. But other than that, I think it's just talking with the people that you trust and finding the right people around you to help you achieve those goals.
Te Kahukura: Thank you for sharing this. And so, when it comes to like those key foundational practices that you have, like are there some things that you would, I guess, encourage people to think about potentially doing?
Miria: Oh, to be honest, like when I first started in business and anyone you talk to that knows me, will know this is that when I first started in business, in the money starts rolling in and you literally just splurge. You just buy whatever clothes you want. You go on overseas trips and all these sorts of things. You just kind of honestly blow the money. And, I'm not afraid to admit that because I think even that was my biggest mistake, or lesson. And so I think, like, I wish that I had someone back then to really clue me up on smarter decisions personally because, business, I can ask, I can find people there's like financial advisors, business financial advisors that you can find to discuss those things. But personally, I don't feel that I had that. And so, it wasn't until now, or probably in the last like two years, that I've started to really take it seriously, even like setting up my life insurance for my babies even though it's so expensive. But I know that it's going to be worth it in the long run for them. And making sure that they’re set up, having a trust for them. Yeah, I think it's just being so much like smarter with my finances and making sure that the things that I need to actually be paying for taken care of. I'm hardly buying clothes now. You know, it's just that reckless kind of spending. Obviously taking care of KiwiSaver and yeah, so, the most important thing for me is that my babies are being taken care of, setting them up for their future, whatever it is they decide to do. I don't want them to feel the same struggles that I probably felt, you know, as a coming up fresh out of high school, and the struggles of university life. So, I do want to prepare them for what’s to come. And so have set up, you know, savings accounts and investment accounts for them, for when they're ready.
Te Kahukura: I really, really love this. And I think as much as I'm not a māmā, I think about my mum and everything that she did for me and how much she thought about, like, the future and how much she instilled in me. Like, you can do anything, but like you've got to have that mindset of being able to do it. And one of the things that I've kind of learned about pūtea, we are kaitiaki of pūtea, like, we're born with no money, we die. You know, we might leave pūtea, but we don't take pūtea with us. Maybe some people do. I don't know. So, in our lifetime, we have the opportunity to use whatever pūtea comes our way in order to leave a legacy and to, you know, everything you're talking about. And I feel like our Tamariki mo nga mokopuna like that is our legacy. And so being able to, as you said, like, make those financial struggles less or not have them struggle in the same way that we might have.
Te Kahukura: Very quickly e te whānau, if you are enjoying today's podcast episode, make sure to share it to your story and tag us. All right, back to the show.
So, are there any, like, other things that you do or mindsets that you have when it comes to managing your pūtea? Like it could be like having a money plan or like budgeting or things that you do with tamariki. So, like as an example, my mum, she used to sit me down and we would do her budget together. And so, one of the actually funny things that we would do, this goes to show how much like prices have changed. But when I was a little kid, we would have a competition who could do groceries like the cheapest. And so, we would take turns. It was just me and mum. My brother had moved overseas at that time and so, we got it down to $40 for both of us to eat for one week. And like we were eating good kai. Like it probably wasn't like the best kai but that's crazy to like, think about now. We could never do that now for $40. But, you know, just like little things like that, are there anything that you do, like with your babies to, I guess, like think about pūtea or to have those discussions that, you know, some of us aren't having with our tamariki.
Miria: I had to actually start having these conversations with my kids around. Like, if they'd asked me for something, I'd be like, no, we've got no money. And my kids would say, I'm not even joking. They would say, but you're rich, you've got HINE. And I'm like, excuse me? And so, I'd start having those conversations with them. It's just like, no, I've got to go make any. You know, it could be even, during the school holidays, I'd have to take my kids to work. They would hate coming to work. They're like, oh, why do you have to go to work? Well, how are we affording all this, food that you're eating, this house that we're, you know, living in? And so, it's just like teaching them from a young age that, first of all, money doesn't grow on trees. Māmā has to go to work to make that money. So, whether you like it or not, you're coming with me to mahi. And they've been around at their whole lives, the me being in business. But it was just teaching them, like, you know, you can't have everything. Don't just have this, like, expectation that you're going to get everything that you want. If you want something, work for it. Show me whether it's like things are, doing chores or doing things around the house, whether it's helping me with things. And then maybe we can just, you know, maybe we can have the discussion around you getting your Robux or your toy that you're wanting or whatever. So, it's just, I think a lot of, you know, young parents especially, is that when you first have kids, you give them everything they want, you spoil them, and I don't think that's the best decision. And I'm speaking from experiences because then, they expect everything. And so, teaching them early on around money, you know, and that you obviously have to work for that to get it.
Te Kahukura: There's this concept I learned at a pukapuka called The Millionaire Next Door, and he talks about economic outpatient care, and it basically talks about like, if you grew up in struggle or if you grew up where maybe you didn't have everything, then, like the next generation, you want to, give all of that to that next generation. But what happens is that next generation might not be able to hold that wealth for the following generation. So, they like one of the things it talks about is teaching our tamariki about financial literacy and not like giving everything.
Miria: The thing is, that it pays off. And the reason I know it pays off is like, here's just an example is that, just Christmas had just gone. And usually, you know, you get the kids to write a Santa list, or you know, what, their wish list for Christmas this year. I said, okay, you've both got $100 and you guys spend it however you want, and I will never forget when me and my son were walking through warehouse, and he was just like, nah, that's too expensive. I know, mum, not like, don't spend that money. And so, you can definitely see that it's actually changing his mindset. My daughter, you know, she's a bit of a work on, but at least I can see that it's definitely paying off of my son. And he's, he's always like blowing up his sister going, oh, stop. Like, that's too expensive, you know. And so the thing is, that the more you talk to your kids about it or kind of get them to understand it, the more it will pay off, and they'll start kind of realising for themselves as well.
Te Kahukura: I feel like some parents will go, oh, I don't want to burden my tamariki with, like, too much kōrero about finances. I don't want them to feel the stress. Do you think that there's like an age that might be, like, too young? Or do you think like the younger they are, the better to, like, teach them these things? Like, I feel like in my life, my mom, I was pretty young when my mom started like talking to me about this stuff. And as much as I feel like sometimes, I'd like worry about things, I also feel like it made me stronger in a way. Like, I'm not saying it's everything was perfect, but I think that there was a benefit in and that kind of style. Do you reckon, you know, there's a maybe too young to think.
Miria: I don’t think so, I think as soon as they start talking, you can start. You know, I think it's just how you do it. And like, you know, I'm not saying that the way I did it is the best way to do it. But it's just explained to them that, like, if you want something, first of all, work for it. Show me that you, you know, that you deserve it. Whether it is helping me around the house, I'm not just going to give you a handout. And the other thing is for them to understand, what we're doing every day. So, us as parents, we're going to work every single day. It's not, you know, because you feel guilty as a mum going to work or having to bring them into work. But for them to understand why I'm at work every day or why I'm having to work. So, it's just those sorts of conversations that I don't think that kids are too young. Like, I don't think there is a specific age.
Te Kahukura: I feel like generational wealth is like this buzzword that so many people are talking about. But I guess from like, a Te Ao Māori perspective of, you know, our tamariki, our mokopuna, I feel like our tipuna, have always seen things generationally. It’s never been about just me, myself and I. It's always about like the next generation in planting seeds. What are some of the, your aspirations for your tamariki?
Miria: You know, one thing that and bless my parents, I love them to absolute death. But one thing I do wish is that they taught me a lot more about finances. And so, I am taking it. It's become my responsibility as a parent to teach my kids everything that I've learned, the mistakes, the failures, the successes, all like all of it. I feel like it's my responsibility to teach them early. But it's not saying to them or, you know, here's $100,000, go and do whatever you want. It's also setting them up quite early on, so that they can understand. All right, if you're going to get a part time job during high school, making sure that you're putting away this amount of money every single week. It's teaching them about what it means to buy a home. It's about teaching them. Yeah, I think it's just like, more so educating them early on around what to expect so that they are prepared. But the main thing for me is, making sure that there's pūtea for them no matter what situation comes up, whether they do go to university, whether I do pass away, you know, like they're taken care of. And that's what's most important to me. And probably the main thing that keeps me motivated with my business too is that, you know, if the business is doing well, if the business is succeeding, it means they're like, my babies are getting taken care of. And so, it all kind of it all goes hand in hand for me.
Te Kahukura: I love this so much. And I think the other thing too about this is like money. Everyone in business says money can go up. Money can go down. But like the lessons, you know, the lessons you hit or oh my gosh, can I even speak English? The education you have, like it doesn't just disappear. It's like something that stays there. So, you know, teaching our tamariki about like money mindset or about like some little systems that they can use or how to, you know, increase their income or whatever. The thing is, I feel like those are the things that will like, last throughout the generations because like, you know, putea can, you know, people can lose things or whatever it is. But that can be passed on for every generation. So, I really took all that and yeah, respect that. And I hope that people listening and can, I guess incorporate that within their whare. One of the things that I've noticed though, is that you're talking about being a cycle breaker, and you're about creating a new reality among mo nga mokopuna mo nga tamariki. I think a lot of people really struggle with it because I feel as though sometimes it's our comfort zone too. Maybe if, we've grown up around not having better or if we've, you know, experienced not having it. Sometimes it's easier or not easier. I feel like it's like choosing your hard, I guess. Like it's hard being broke and it's hard also doing the opposite. And like, being good without learning those lessons, learning how to do your money, playing like, you know, sacrificing a bit of your putea to put on your KiwiSaver, doing those little things. That's hard. And I think a lot of people find it really difficult to go. Like, my life's really hard right now. Like, how do I get out of this? What would you say to someone who's like, in that mode where they're like, maybe they're still broke right now, but they're like, but I can see, you know, what you've done. I can see all of this kind of stuff. What can they, what can you tell them to help them navigate being that cycle breaker because it's not something that everyone does. I feel like there's a probably more people who don't. Oh, there's probably more people who don't break cycles than there are who do. I don't know, I don't have any data on, I don't know.
Miria: I feel like you have to go through that, though, to really be grateful. For what? Like you have to feel that hard for you to be grateful for whatever it is that you achieve later in life, if that makes sense. So, for me, it's like I've been through those struggles and like, to be honest, over the last eight years, I've probably been through a lot of struggles that no one would know about as well. But then, like I said, it's like when you actually come out of that, you have so much gratitude. Whereas like, if you don't go through that, the struggles or the hardship or whatever, I don't know how to word this to make sure it doesn't come out the wrong way. But I'm grateful for my struggles because it's definitely, it's made me the person that I am today because I don't want to feel that again. And I feel like, especially as a businesswoman is, there all my mistakes or sorry, all my failures have definitely, made me stronger or made me more, I don't know, more aware. Because then, I feel that I can be hit with anything right now, and it won't. It won't tear me down, if you know what I mean. It's because I've, like, felt all the struggles. I've felt all the hard times that I'm just. I don't know if it's like bullet-proof. It's just like. . .
Te Kahukura: Exposure therapy.
Miria: Yeah, well, I've been through it all, and especially with business, is that I've literally been through every failure, mistake, lesson that you could think of. And it's turned me into the businesswoman. It's turned me into the mum. It's turned me into the woman that I am today. So that's why I'm like, really grateful for everything that I've been through and that's a thing. Like when I talk about my kids and them not wanting to feel that. It's not to say that we should hand our kids everything that they want so that they don't feel it. It's just more so preparing them for it. And that's what I want to try and do for my kids is that, you know, I want them to feel a little bit of the struggle so that they can kind of understand and be grateful too. But it's more so preparing them for it so that, you know, anything that happens to them in life. Firstly, I'm always going to be there for them, but that they have some kind of like, yeah, preparation for whatever it is to come.
Te Kahukura: This is just so powerful. I'm like, so grateful for you. You sharing the insights into this and the behind the scenes of those challenges and the insights and the learnings that you've had. E mihi ana e hoa for, for being so open about this.
Miria: One main thing that I do want to say is that you're never too late as well. It's never too late, to start being a lot more. Yeah and I feel like, especially with my generation, I'm 36, and it's taken me a long time to learn, Right? And I feel like a lot of our people, they feel like a failure. Like, if, they don't have a savings account for their tamariki or you know, don't have their own personal savings account, you feel like a failure. But I feel like one thing that I do want to say before I leave today is like, it's never too late to learn for yourself. And it's never too late to start preparing for your tamariki and what's to happen for them as well. We talked about generational wealth, and so I feel like, yeah, make it your responsibility. But, you know, don't feel like it's too late. Don't feel like you're a failure. There's never a wrong time to start, that's for sure. And I say that from experience.
Te Kahukura: I have literally, like, this has been so cool and I've, you know, messaged you a long time ago, like, it's been a dream of mine to have you on the podcast and to hear about your journey. So, like, honestly, from the bottom of my heart, I'm so grateful for you making the time today. I know how busy you are, so I'm very, very grateful for that. And yeah, e mihi ana kia koe, for coming today, so thank you for that. And thank you for your matauranga for sharing this with us all. I guess to yeah. Hei whakakapi i tō taua kōrero for everyone listening today, there is an ANZ Financial wellbeing calculator that you can go down below and have a look at. And I think, I actually did it last night, which was quite funny and it was so easy. It was like two minutes long. And then it basically spits out a number of like your whatever your number is out of 100. And then it's like the average for people your age, which was quite cool. So, go do that because it's kind of fun and like, I don't know, share it on your story or something. I don't know. But e mihi ana kia koe.
Miria: Thank you for having me. That was a good kōrero.
Te Kahukura: It was.
[Text on screen: ANZ logo, Māori Millionaire Presents How We Money]
Voiceover by Te Kahukura: Your reflection step today? Choose one money habit you want to strengthen over the next year. Matariki is a powerful moment for new beginnings. Let this be one of them. If you are planning for your future financial well-being, ANZ has some useful information and tools on their website. I've linked you to their Financial wellbeing page and the show notes below. This is a great place to start.
If you found value in today's episode, please make sure to send this to a friend, whānau member or on your story. Make sure to tag us too.
The information in this podcast is for general information only and isn't financial advice. The views of the host or guests are their own and do not represent ANZ. ANZ and Māori Millionaire does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of the content and isn't liable for any loss arising from its use. Please seek personalised advice before making financial decisions.